chess vs computer

Chess Vs Computer

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sf115 25 ( +1 | -1 )
puzzel at -> www.chessgames.com is Levitzky-Marshall 1914 Breslau.

Black (marshal) played 23...Qg3 leading to winning a rook. Would 23...Ne2 24.Kh1 (forced) Rf2 have led to mate?
heinzkat 11 ( +1 | -1 )



ccmcacollister 17 ( +1 | -1 )
Got to remember ... after Rxf2, the open f-file will work BOTH ways! :)
So ...Qd8+ ! looks mean Kf7[] Rxf2+ or maybe even Qd7+ or Rc7+ instead.
But, I can't see that far before dinner!
ccmcacollister 45 ( +1 | -1 )
PS// I have a FIDE Master friend who tells everyone, "Always Check for Check!" as part of their procedure for every move made ... which sounds so simple, but THEN I remember all the games I've tossed out the window from missing some diagonal check by a Q or B
... and realize it would probably save me several dozen rating points in a year of heavy tournament play. So the only response I have is, "right you are Mike"! }8-))
More: Chess App
ionadowman 72 ( +1 | -1 )
The line suggested ... by ccmcacollister looks pretty good for White, to me! 23...Ne2ch 24.Kh1 Rxf2 25.Qd8ch Kf7 (forced, since ...Rf8 won't do!) 26.Rxf2ch Rf3 (26...Kg6 27.Qg5# or 26...Qf3 27.Rxf3 Rxf3 28.gxf3) 27.Rxc3 Rxf2 28.Rf3ch etc. So Marshall wasn't just playing to the gallery with just about the most aesthetically pleasing move ever seen on the chessboard. It doesn't lead to mate, but a winning endgame: 24.Qxg3 (both pawn captures lead to a swift quietus, though! ... and if 24.Qe5 Ne2ch and mate next) 24...Ne2ch 25.Kh1 Nxg3ch 26.Kg1 Nxf1 27.gxh3 Nd2 28.Rc7 Rf4! 29.Rxb7 Rg5ch 30.Kh1 Nf3 31.Rb1 Kf7 when Black can probably keep White's K locked up whilst he manoeuvres his own K to pick up the stray c- and f- pawns.
sf115 2 ( +1 | -1 )
what about 23...Ne2+ 24. Kh1 Qg3
ionadowman 31 ( +1 | -1 )
23...Ne2ch 24.Kh1 Qg3... ... Transposes into the "game continuation", to the win of a rook after 25.Qxg3 Nxg3ch 26.Kg1... But I doubt there would have been any shower of coins (apocryphal or otherwise) had Marshall played it this way, since this move order obviates the pawn captures that gives 23...Qg3 such eclat.
heinzkat 6 ( +1 | -1 )
ionadowman... no you're wrong about that!! look more carefully.....
ionadowman 7 ( +1 | -1 )
Of course! Silly me... 23...Ne2ch 24.Kh1 Qg3 25.gxh3 ... I was right about the shower of coins though...
;-)
Ion
ultimatt 57 ( +1 | -1 )
Well... After 23... Qg3, Chessmaster quickly decides that black and white will trade Queens and Rooks, so the move doesn't win a rook. I can give the exact moves of that analysis if you want.

After the alternative line, Chessmaster has white going into the end game with a Queen and Rook against a Knight, eventually winning the knight and then checkmate. So no, there is no forced mate after the alternative line. Of course an opponent can always make a bad move that leads to either mate or a strong advantage, so you never know.
ionadowman 91 ( +1 | -1 )
ultimatt... You are right: the sacrifice doesn't actually win a rook (though I'm not sure who said it would - I'm fairly sure I didn't! ;-))
After 23...Qg3, Black threatens mate by 24...Qxh2# How to stop the mate?
Let's eliminate the pawn captures first:
24.fxg3 Ne2ch 25.Kh1 Rxf1ch
24.hxg3 Ne2#
How about the queen capture? Check out my earlier posting with this line
24.Qxg3 Ne2ch 25.Kh1 Nxg3ch 26.Kg1! (26.fxg3 Rxf1#) 26...Nxf1 27.gxh3 Nd2 retaining a knight extra. In an earlier posting I gave as a possible continuation 28.Rc7 Rf5! [mis-typed as Rf4!] 29.Rxb7 Rg5ch 30.Kh1 Nf3 31.Rb1 Kf7 etc.
w
The threat of advancing Black's king to h3 against White's imprisoned monarch will probably force White to give up his c-pawn. The idea is 32.Rc1? (say) Kg6 33.c4 Kh5 34.c5 Kh4 35.c6 Kxh3 36.c7 Rg2 37.c8=Q Rxh2# OK, this is all speculation, I agree!
There is a fourth possibility:
24.Qe5 Ne2ch 25.Kh1 Rxh2# or 25.Qxe2 Qxh2#
Cheers,
Ion